It was cool to 'grok' Spock, and Kirk was, well, part of the military industrial complex, and therefore suspect. (It was the sixties after all.)
While I don't know if "military" is exactly suspect anymore like it was in the 60's, this theme continues to play out from fandom to fandom - it being cooler to grok the second lead more than the lead, particularly if the lead is a real man's man, in the military or a cop or some other physically challenging and testosterone-laced kind of job (see Jack in SG-1, John in SGA, Jim in The Sentinel - all "J" names, that's interesting - etc.). OTOH, maybe that's why I'm attracted to them? ;)
But it wasn't the traditional virtues that attracted me to him. It was his ability to think outside his limitations. He possessed a mind always ready to reinvent the situation he was in. He was smart and he knew it, but he knew Spock was smarter and wasn't intimidated.
Again, ITA, and I think this quality is also a large part of all the characters I just named. In other words, no I don't want nor would be attracted to a brainless grunt character. I need more, especially a character to be very aware of himself, of his strengths and weaknesses, and like you said, not be afraid of or intimidated by his own weaknesses. He must embrace them, and I think all the men I mentioned do exactly that. None of them are brainless grunts at all, they're far more layered - in many ways, more genuinely layered than the scientific/academic second lead much of the time. Those of us attracted to a lead character like this often get qualities of both in the same package.
... when I dislocated my arm I was in no mood to appreciate the 'finer traits' of the man who was putting my arm back in it's socket, it happed to be a friend doing the deed and I can report that I didn't feel any special bonding going on, mostly I was gritting my teeth trying not to vomit. But then maybe that’s just me, perhaps I'm not enough of a romantic.
Hey, I'm with you, when I'm hurt or sick, I frankly don't want anyone around me at all, even people I like/love in the first place. So, yeah, it's not the trauma itself that's conducive to bonding - I don't see it. It's, like you said, getting to see inside the heads of the characters in a comfort scenario that kick-starts the bonding. I know writers who really, and literally painfully, concentrate on the Hurt part of the equation - a one-time close friend of mine wrote prolifically like this all the time - and I can't read it, I avoided her stuff because it was H/c instead of h/C, and particularly rough on the H, which doesn't turn me on at all and is something I'm uncomfortable reading.
I particularly hate rape scenarios that are SO damn popular in many H/C stories. I avoid those like the plague after suffering through a number of them. It's just not something I want to have to wade through and digest to maybe get to the comfort and the bonding, especially since I have a harder time believing it after a horrifically traumatic situation like that. Sometimes I really don't think fans think it through.
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Date: 2009-05-18 11:52 am (UTC)While I don't know if "military" is exactly suspect anymore like it was in the 60's, this theme continues to play out from fandom to fandom - it being cooler to grok the second lead more than the lead, particularly if the lead is a real man's man, in the military or a cop or some other physically challenging and testosterone-laced kind of job (see Jack in SG-1, John in SGA, Jim in The Sentinel - all "J" names, that's interesting - etc.). OTOH, maybe that's why I'm attracted to them? ;)
But it wasn't the traditional virtues that attracted me to him. It was his ability to think outside his limitations. He possessed a mind always ready to reinvent the situation he was in. He was smart and he knew it, but he knew Spock was smarter and wasn't intimidated.
Again, ITA, and I think this quality is also a large part of all the characters I just named. In other words, no I don't want nor would be attracted to a brainless grunt character. I need more, especially a character to be very aware of himself, of his strengths and weaknesses, and like you said, not be afraid of or intimidated by his own weaknesses. He must embrace them, and I think all the men I mentioned do exactly that. None of them are brainless grunts at all, they're far more layered - in many ways, more genuinely layered than the scientific/academic second lead much of the time. Those of us attracted to a lead character like this often get qualities of both in the same package.
... when I dislocated my arm I was in no mood to appreciate the 'finer traits' of the man who was putting my arm back in it's socket, it happed to be a friend doing the deed and I can report that I didn't feel any special bonding going on, mostly I was gritting my teeth trying not to vomit. But then maybe that’s just me, perhaps I'm not enough of a romantic.
Hey, I'm with you, when I'm hurt or sick, I frankly don't want anyone around me at all, even people I like/love in the first place. So, yeah, it's not the trauma itself that's conducive to bonding - I don't see it. It's, like you said, getting to see inside the heads of the characters in a comfort scenario that kick-starts the bonding. I know writers who really, and literally painfully, concentrate on the Hurt part of the equation - a one-time close friend of mine wrote prolifically like this all the time - and I can't read it, I avoided her stuff because it was H/c instead of h/C, and particularly rough on the H, which doesn't turn me on at all and is something I'm uncomfortable reading.
I particularly hate rape scenarios that are SO damn popular in many H/C stories. I avoid those like the plague after suffering through a number of them. It's just not something I want to have to wade through and digest to maybe get to the comfort and the bonding, especially since I have a harder time believing it after a horrifically traumatic situation like that. Sometimes I really don't think fans think it through.